A place to discuss Tsalmoth for those who have read it.
[Note: WordPress seems to have been randomly marking things as Spam. If your comment didn’t appear, that’s why. I think I’ve now recovered them all, and they should be up. Sorry I didn’t get to it sooner.]
A lot of little bits had me teary, but the epilogue especially. I don’t even know how to deal with that reveal, yet.
Written with the voice of a young Vlad.
A tavern named “The Stolen Boat”?
Honestly, the boat wasn’t even really stolen. It was put to exactly the use for which it was hired, and then returned to its rightful owner.
I both regret and do not regret that I’ve already powered through it.
Love getting an “untold tale” of Vlad’s time in the organization along with the supplemental background regarding memories and Vlad’s intense feelings regarding meddling with such matters of the psyche… but as Vlad might or might not tell his future self, “Trust me, I know what I’m doing.”
Or perhaps not. :-)
I’m both curious and fascinated to imagine if the necromantic … modification discussed either sheds new light on previous stories or will turn out to be additionally relevant in those that remaining to be told. At the very least it feels quite pertinent to past encounters between Vlad and our favorite Demon Goddess! I suddenly feel the urge to review /Vallista/ and Vlad’s observations on that demon, hmmm.
Very pleased to again see Cawti and Vlad during happier times (relatively speaking!) when their relationship was still passionate and supportive – it always felt like it had begun to dissolve too soon when reading in publication order. This was a welcome and heartwarming addition to their personal chronology… and also wonderful to see that Dragonlords, Jhereg, Easterners, certain Issola, and naturally a *particular* flower girl were able to peacefully co-exist for the celebration.<3
Sir Brust, I also thank you greatly for the epilogue – as gratifying as this tale has been to devour, I remain ever curious to learn of what adventures and intrigues will befall our intrepid and alleged “simple guy” following the events of /Hawk/ and this addition, however brief, has whetted my appetite even further. XD
Cheers!
Wonderful wonderful addition to the story. I loved being back with the whole crew, and hearing the voice of young Vlad was just fun. I loved the cameos of everyone we miss, and while I was fully expecting everything to be wrapped up in a nice bow by the end, I very much enjoyed how it worked out. It’s going to be a hard year to wait for more, but I feel like my next read/listen through the series will be fun for a whole new reason. Thank you.
Not really a spoiler, I supposed, but I feel like this one really nailed the House–the way Vlad acts, the structure of the book, the Tsalmoth themselves that we see–all lined up with “unpredictability and tenacity” (and, for that matter with, “Tsalmoth maintains, though none know now”).
Vlad is a demon? That makes sense. There is a scene in Issola where Vlad is actually in two places at once (its much easier to pick out in hardcover), to quote the Lyorn Library wiki: ” in Issola. Look top of page 141 in the hardback. Begin with the line “I took a step forward–” and read every third line until you reach a line that ends in a period. Return to the top of 141, begin with the line following “I took a step forward” and read every third line as before. Read this way, the sequence clearly shows Vlad taking three pathways simultaneously. It’s neatly put together so the casual reader thinks its another Brustian homage to Zelazny’s shadow walks, so it’s easy enough to miss”
@Chris
The epilogue implies that Vlad may no longer be a demon, as a result of whatever Sethra did to him, but at the cost of his memories of the time when he was.
I still theorize that his perceptions remain somewhat altered. This may serve to explain his subsequent perceptions of Verra (speaking differently to different people–answering questions that he did not hear Morrolan/Aliera ask, etc) and maybe also the “shaking” of Tukko’s (Sethra’s servant) hands; Vlad is perceiving events happening on different Necormantic Planes (realities) simultaneously. Which has GOT to be disorienting for a simple guy like Vlad, right?
Thanks for pointing that out, Chris. I hadn’t realized anyone had ever caught that.
@majikon I remain convinced he is still a demon or has demon-like qualities.
@Chris
Oh, I agree, he’s definitely different than he was.
It’s just presented by Sethra in last chapter as it being a choice between Vlad keeping his memories, and having freedom from people being able to summon him away to different planes of existence and compel him to do favors for them. Since that’s pretty much the definition of what makes a being a demon, it seems like Vlad no longer fully qualifies.
Of course, there’s always the possibility that Sethra was lying, and that she didn’t do anything to him at all except make him forget about being a demon, relying on the fact that no one else in the multiverse knows enough about Vlad to be able to summon him anyway to make it important at all whether or not he’s actually still a demon.
Vlad really does make for a lousy source of reliable information, doesn’t he? ;-)
Oh, there was a moment where I thought “Aha! I bet I know what’s up!” and was thoroughly blinded by the obvious. To be specific, after Pathfinder failed to locate Lady Tavissa it occurred to me that she might have transferred to a necromantic plane of reality that overlapped Dragera. Right location but different dimension, so to speak. So that was a terrific head-desk moment. :-)
Re: extra dimensions, I wonder how Vlad would perceive the Necromancer were he to visit her room in Castle Black while she was asleep… I suppose that’s one explanation regarding the basement of Castle Black. Handy trick, that.
And now regarding /Vallista/ I’m envisioning a Platform designed to exist not across multiple time periods but across worlds or necromantic planes, rather like Morrolan’s tower I suppose.
Hmm. So the spell put on Vlad, it would have created a safe space presumably on the border of the Lesser Sea of Chaos? That still would have to play hell with property values…
@majikjon I believe the point of Vlad’s memory loss was that if *he* didn’t know his name, he couldn’t respond to someone else using it to summon him, but removing the memory meant removing all sorts of memories connected to his name–for example, most of the plot of Tsalmoth.
Thanks to Lady Teldra, and likely a bunch of other stimuli, those memories are coming back and he knows his name again, which means he’s back to being a demon again, but now he’s a demon with a Great Weapon. So that’s bad news for someone, possibly whoever thinks it’s a good idea to summon him.
@Dennis
I like this idea, and I do leave the window open to the possibility of Vlad’s demon-hood still being a thing. This could make for a very interesting set-up to his final dealings with his demon goddess.
On an unrelated note, I’m pretty sure where the name of “The Stolen Boat” comes from, but am curious if there’s a similar origin to “The Dancing Biscuit”.
Got Tsalmoth in the mail yesterday and finished it before bed. Another excellent effort — and thank you for more Cawti; I’m genuinely fond of the two of them together.
I read that interaction with Sethra to mean that the only way for someone to know Vlad’s name was if they knew it already, or could “scry for it.” If no one knows it, then there’s nowhere to scry for it? My question is, was everyone else’s memories of these events altered? Or is everyone just too polite to mention to Vlad he is a demon because they know it upsets him?
@Dennis: that was also my impression. More precisely, I got the sense that what makes a creature a demon is that it knows its “true name”. Vlad stopped being one when he forgot and now is one again, since the memory has returned.
Some of the untold stories Vlad has mentioned are fulfilled in Tsalmoth, including:
“Cawti holding a knife to Morrolan’s throat and explaining how it was going to be, while I sat paralyzed and helpless” (Teckla 13). Tsalmoth 51.
Vlad is assassinated as a warning, then revivified by Sethra Lavode (Jhereg 39-40) Tsalmoth 235.
Vlad sees the Necromancer’s quarters in Castle Black (“years ago”, Iorich 70). An almost exact retelling of this is on Tsalmoth 257.
Vlad teleports into a cavern while bleeding, coughing, and passing out (Vallista 205). Tsalmoth 269.
If anyone else found others I would be happy to see them!
Dennis: Yeah, that’s how I figure it as well. Though we could both be wrong.
Hey comrade, I noticed on Amazon Tsalmoth is listed at book 16 of 16 but I just got my copy and though I haven’t read it yet, I figure after 30 some years in the series it wouldn’t end without a more explicit acknowledgement of that. Is this the end of the road for Vlad? I was kinda hoping for a Lyorn and Chreotha. (Not that you owe us anything… cough;)
Oooh, I’m late to the party. I knew this would be fun.
1st – @Majikjon – Re: The Stolen Boat – I believe we’ve already addressed this issue enough back in Magister comments, so I’ll simply say that I thoroughly enjoyed the throwback and leave it at that ;-)~
2nd – @Chris/@Majikjon – Re: Issola 141 – Chris – I absolutely believe that this could easily fit into the Vlad-as-Demon new meta. I had previously thought that it referred to Vlad and Spellbreaker, or should I say “Spellbreaker in potential”, and I only gleaned 2 pathways there.
3rd – @Chris/@Dennis/@Majikjon – After my first read I am firmly of the opinion that Vlad is still a Demon. @Majikjon – You refer to various instances where Vlad perceives Verra and Morrolan saying different stuff. Yeah, that happens. Teldra specifically says in Issola, referring to Verra, (hardback, page 111), “Sometimes when she speaks to us, we do not hear the same thing.” Multiple times after that little tidbit we’ve heard either Aliera, or Sethra, say something to others present when Verra speaks, along the lines of, “If you missed that, she said…” and then clarifies. Morrolan was injected with Verra’s blood, and after that, on multiple occasions, we’ve witnessed Vlad questioning what Morrolan just said, only for him or someone else to say it again in different words. So I’ve always assumed, and continue to assume after reading Tsalmoth, that anyone hearing different stuff from Verra and/or Morrolan was, and is, contingent on Verra being able to be in MANY places at once, and Morrolan being Verra’s soulmate, and also have a batch of her blood in his veins.
4th, and finally (for now), – I was firmly in agreement with @Dennis’ in thinking that if Sethra and Verra removed Vlad’s memory of his name, then he couldn’t be summoned, by most. I did NOT, and do NOT, believe that just because he can’t be summoned (and I call bullshit on that one – if Verra helped remove his memory of his name, she knows his name), means that he is no longer a demon.
5th – @halplm – I love the last two questions you asked and hope they will be answered!
D
Yes, I screwed up on the 4th and finally – in my defense, I hadn’t read @halplm’s comment when I started writing my response. Ooops.
@Derek Smith
Let’s not miss the kethna for the roast, nor ignore the dzur in the corner.
What are the two qualities necessary to be called a demon? (or rather, what is the distinction between a demon and a god?).
Both gods and demons share a common trait:
The ability to manifest in multiple places at the same time.
What makes gods different from demons?
Gods cannot be forcibly controlled by another being.
Perhaps erasing Vlad’s memory of his true name defeats the ability for him to be forcibly controlled. But even if that is so, we are still left with a Vlad who is fundamentally able to manifest in multiple places at once. This can hardly be considered a trivial revelation.
And if he is not truly a demon, is he therefore a god?
I consider this last possibility unlikely. But still, we’ve seen demons who are, at least in some respects, more powerful or skilled at certain tasks than gods. (See Verra vs the Necromancer during the battle at the Lesser Sea in /Issola/.)
One begins to understand how Vlad may well be endowed with the abilities needed to fulfill the prophesies ascribed to him (and Godslayer).
@Majikjon – I assure you, I have forgotten neither the single quality that Demons and Gods share (multiple manifestation), nor what separates them (forcible control).
Thus my fourth point above good sir, which states that even if Sethra and Verra were able to remove the memory of his true name, and thus the ability for MOST others to summon him, I do not, for one second, believe that Verra has forgotten his name, or doesn’t have the power to summon him. To me, that means he is still a Demon.
And definitely not a God. Yet.
Ben: I think Amazon means #16 of 16 done so far. The plan is for a total of 19.
(First time posting here on Dreamcafé but I’ve been reading Vlad’s stories since the mid-90ies.)
When Vlad goes to visit the Tsalmoth Heir, he meets a bunch of Phoenix Guards, “…five of them, not counting a brigadier” – a brigadier?
There is a Captain, who we know and love, and who Vlad had a near-run in with in the first Tiassa section, but we have never heard of the rank of brigadier in the Phoenix Guards, have we?
We DO have a Brigadier of the Special Tasks Group, however.
Is this a case of Vlad being bad at reading rank insignia – or was it actually the STG visiting the Tsalmoth heir?
@Derek Smith – The point of Vlad forgetting his demonic name is that he can’t be compelled by it if he doesn’t know that’s him.
Verra still knowing it wouldn’t make any more difference than anyone else who knows it or scries for it.
To the best of my understanding
Glad they danced a csardas at the wedding
The book came just as I was feeling pretty glum for outside reasons, but as soon as I started reading I got an ear to ear grin that is still there.
Sajen the forger has gone straight, painted a portrait if the Tiassa Heiress, and sold it to Morrolon?
Dragaerans bet on cart races, fights, square ball, and court ball?
Vlad stumbling over pretty easy words that Cawti knew?
Morrolan laughing, tons of me, Lady Teldra?
I loved it all so much. Thanks skzb.
Caveat: I’ve only read up to the bit where Vlad gets trapped in the stone.
Should the landscape description there be giving me vibes of Zelazny’s Keep of the Four Worlds in the second Amber series?
(Though I should note I am rather prone to seeing Zelazny references in Brust’s work.)
@Captain Button
That comparison only works if the leader of the Left Hand of the Jhereg turns out to secretly be one of Vlad’s old girlfriends.
So did Sethra play Vlad the tape of the story of Tsalmoth? And is the listening to the tape his only memory of the wedding?
I agree that the demon thing bothered Vlad because he could be summoned, and now that he does not know his own name, it won’t work. But being a demon at all, also troublesome.
skzb, congrats on #16 and that’s great to hear. Jhereg is the book that made me a reader!
@Majikjon: I suppose an Easterner member of the Left Hand would be possible, but one being the leader seems unlikely.
(Did Vlad date any Dragaerans before Sara?)
Alright, so there’s insane implications from Tsalmoth which give way to the following predictions/theorycrafts:
1) Lady Teldra & Vlad -> LT is also a demon. Just like Vlad, because they’re the same entity. But LT is more like the angel trope: she sits on Vlad’s shoulder, well, his hip, and whispers how to be better instead of suggesting dark temptations :) I wouldn’t be surprised if Vlad’s True Name is the Serioli name for Godslayer–and I bet that’s LT’s True Name too. Godslayer, then, is a demon with a few Aspects–Vlad, Dolivar, Teldra, Spellbreaker, Loiosh & Rocza. The next time someone summons Vlad, they’re probably going to get quite a bit more than they bargained for. They’ll get all of those aspects, fully powered up.
2) The Warlock -> Brimford is a Demonlord, ie, a Devil, and two of the demons he commands are his familiars. This could explain his statement to Discaru, ie “You? Curse ME?” That’s the kind of thing you say if you’re just straight up higher on the pecking order than the other guy.
3) We haven’t seen the last of Precipice Manor
5) Pel knows Vlad’s true name and the fact that he’s a demon, having gotten the information from the disgraced ex-Tsalmoth Heir. Vlad’s been too influential too many times to not have shown up on Pel’s radar as an extremely peculiar aberration, which would be irresistable for Pel.
6) Verra’s destruction by Godslayer will be a compelled act. My money is currently on Verra summoning him herself and issuing the command.
7) Darkness can be accessed by time spikes. And they eat worlds. Sounds like a black hole to me, or perhaps some kind of mystical manifestation of one. Black holes end creation. If Darkness is one parent…is there another? One that perhaps, creates creation?
8) “Lightness”. In Steve’s Extended Universe (SEU) Lightness is probably just another word for Cacoastrum, which according to my SEU theory, is also synonymous with Amorphia. Which as an aside means trellanstone is a chunk from the ramparts of heaven itself, if that helps contextualize its rarity and value as described by Aliera/Morrolan in _Issola_
The Jenoine are ugly, completely alien things of incomprehensible power. If SEU is a thing, then the Jenoine could quite plausibly be those denizens of Heaven who didn’t get on board with the whole Yeshuah thing from _TRiH_. They “manifest” as ugly/deformed to us because they have been changed/harmed–but not destroyed–by amorphia exposure. In _TRiH_, The Fallen wanted to create a safe space away from the Chaos that exists separate from Heaven or Earth. They might do this, by, for example, conducting experiments into societies that are artificially prevented from changing, ie, shielded from chaos.
THE JENOINE ARE FALLEN ANGELS TRYING TO CREATE A SAFE SPACE AWAY FROM THE CACOASTRUM!!
Let’s plug that back into 6). Verra hates the Jenoine more than almost anyone. This because The Daughters of Darkness are the things that The Jenoine is trying to protect itself from, by using amorphia’s tricks against it, bending it to their will. They literally enslaved her and her sisters, and that’s why she was so ineffectual during the battle in _Issola_ It also makes sense how Adron and others of her family line are protected from its lethal effects.
If this is true, then Steve Brust is the only author that I’m aware of to solve the “how can a society last for thousands of years in fantasy literature but not progress as a society technologically/sociologically etc.” And he didn’t just solve it, he…WOW. I’m just….WOW. If this is what Steve planned all along, or if this is where Steve is steering it…then that means the first Dragaera book was released 40 years before Lyorn, and over 40 years prior to The Final Contract.
Playing the Long Game, are we, Steve? *prostrates self* We’re not worthy! We’re not worthy!
There is nothing the books that says he did, young Vlad really hated Dragaerans so I’m inclined to say no.
Other than Cawti and Lady Saruchka, the other former girlfriends of Vlad’s we know about were all easterners. Their names were Constance, Ibronka, Jeanine, Szandi, and Sheila.
@Csikos – I disagree with you here. I think that the point of Vlad agreeing to allow Sethra and Verra to remove/suppress his true name was so that the likelihood of anyone SCRYING for his name would be neutralized. Furthermore, I believe that knowing the Necromancer, Sethra, and Verra, had access to his true name, might have given him a bit of discomforting comfort; given his occupation and propensity for danger, the potential for him becoming “shiny” was high. Having such entities knowing his true name and thus the possibility that they may be able to summon him even after he dies a death that Aliera might not be able to resurrect him from, seems to me like a bargain he would accept.
Just my thoughts – obviously we need more info for any kind of certainty ;-)~
@Kragar – The epilogue to Tsalmoth states clearly that Vlad had never forgotten his wedding, but many of the events surrounding it. To me it also implied that the reason his memories of said events were now returning was a continuing offshoot of when he used Lady Teldra back in Dzur and first realized that Devera and Verra fucked with his memory to keep him (relatively) sane in the Paths of the Dead. I believe this was also alluded to in Vallista.
After the demon reveal, and right up to the end, I was expecting this from Jhereg: “Here I had battled with my own likeness, come to take me to that land from which none return.” But the line before that says: “Here I had parlayed with spirits from my ancestral home for the release of the Necromancer’s soul.” And we did get something about negotiation from the Necromancer.
Also, this was just excellent. Thanks.
So how many people close to Vlad’s know about his situation and have agreed to keep silent about it in all the intervening years? Sethra, Morrolan, Aliera, the Necromancer, Cawti, & Loiosh? Oh, and Verra.
Presumably Sethra had to be the one to deliver the news to everyone. For most of them it was no concern. I’m guessing that Loiosh as Vlad’s familiar is so intertwined with him that he was also directly impacted by the memory shenanigans, otherwise it’s hard to imagine he’d be able to keep something of that magnitude hidden from Vlad for so long (but Vlad himself admits he doesn’t know exactly how that connection works so maybe Loiosh compartmentalizes.) Cawti was probably the only one who needed convincing, but knowing what we know of her unique parentage and assuming that she herself knows some of it and commiserates to some degree, maybe it didn’t take as much convincing as it would have otherwise.
More interesting are the ones not close to Vlad that know: the Left Hand (or at least Shireth’s group) and the “rightful” Tsalmoth heir (rightful in quotes since we have no reason to believe Tavissa’s family didn’t conspire to sabotage the one in line prior to hers so who’s to say who has the most just claim.) Tavissa is entirely occupied with trying to discredit Chervik so she has no reason to even really care about Vlad’s metaphysical state or overlap with his life. Shireth likely would have held on to that info and guarded the secret from the rest of the Left Hand just as insurance in case it became useful at a future date. With how much trouble Vlad caused the Jhereg and how hard they tried to track him down later on, I wonder if Shireth tried to cash in on that knowledge only to be thwarted (heh) when scrying for Vlad’s true name. I imagine the Demon paying for the info and for the summoning attempt and, knowing how thorough he is, it’s likely he spoke to both Shireth and Tavissa while running down the rumors in his attempt to locate Vlad. When the summoning failed, he probably still wondered if the rumors were actually false or if Vlad just had some way to block being summoned like he could block sorcery and psionics. It’s interesting to think that the Demon suspects Vlad of being an actual demon in their interactions post-“Phoenix” chronologically so that’s my head canon now.
Kragar has to have heard the rumors while Vlad was on the run, right? Someone in Shireth’s group would have let it slip once the entire Organization was looking for Vlad. I’m sure there were a ton of really outlandish rumors flying around already (and that Kragar added his own ones to the mix), and I’m sure Kragar absolutely would have loved relaying some of the better ones to Vlad when they reconnected all those years later. (“What do you think, Loiosh? Am I a demon living on another plane in order to avoid the Jhereg?” “Am I a dragon-eating norska?” “Just checking.”) Funny to think of Vlad potentially hearing true things about himself but not even knowing they were true.
It’s heartbreaking to see how wonderful Vlad and Cawti’s relationship is here only to see how the seeds of their breakup were planted at the very end. How much impotent resentment must have built up in Cawti knowing how much she had altered her life to be with Vlad, how in love she was, only for Vlad to decide he so abhorred the thought of not being in control of every aspect of his own life that he impulsively and willingly traded in memories of her and their relationship to safeguard that control. And he did it without consulting her, knowing full well that she’d have to keep the secret from him for it to work and simply trusting that she’d do it. A secret like that weighs on a relationship, the presumption even more so. They were still in their literal honeymoon period so it was probably easier for Cawti to push down the resentment at first (since at least from Vlad’s point of view things between them seemed fine in “Jhereg”), but this was really just the first major one of many of the red flags that Cawti would eventually no longer be able to ignore. Just a real gut punch to end the story proper on.
Loved the book. Can’t wait to get back to it on my next reread of the series knowing the additional context that it gives us.
As usual, I plowed through Tsamolth way too fast. I had a few “a ha” moments that I of course cannot recall, so a re-read will most certainly be in order. Tsalmoth felt like a bridge book…connecting Vlad’s past with the final acts of his story yet untold, leading us to the “Final Contract”. I think if Vlad’s is going to survive, Cawti is going to have a huge role to play.
One revelation I found entirely interesting is that much of what I love about Vlad’s has come from Cawti’s influence. The well read guy who attributes his extended vocabulary to Kragar’s son to “books” would never have been so without Cawti. SKZB has made me, over the course of the last few books, completely reevaluate how I feel about her. Like the father in me used to be pissed that she hid the knowledge of Vlad Norathar’s existence but now I’ve come to understand that she didn’t do this selfishly but rather to protect Vlad, knowing as he later demonstrates, that he will forego his own safety to visit.
I went into Tsalmoth bummed that we wouldn’t get a progression to Vlad’s story after Hawk, and the Epilogue pretty much added an additional layer of satisfaction while Tsalmoth itself provided some pretty pertinent but previously unknown details that are most certainly going to be relevant in the future.
And after having said all that, the scene of Sethra and Vlad crossing their great weapons and the reaction Morrolon and Sethra give keep making their way to the forefront of my consciousness after finishing Tsalmoth and I 100% agree with the comment that when Vlad does strike down Verra, it will be because his Demon nature was compelled to do so against his will.
Bravo SKZB, as usual. What a fun and awesomely unexpected foray into Vlad’s past.
This book reminds me of the lighter tone of Tiassa, set back in the “good old days” when Vlad’s life being threatened was just his adventure of the week, no greater consequence. I also observed that characters used to laugh at lot more in the past. And I agree with the above post; it is sweet (yet also bittersweet) to see Vlad receiving those smiles from Cawti that he so cherished.
I will mention that in the early part of the book, when the POV switched to Morrolan, I did not get a sense of Morrolan’s personality nor speaking pattern. My explanation is that what we are actually getting is Vlad’s interpretation of Morrolan thoughts as heard via BlackWand, so it-was-Vlad-i-mir-all-a-long (sing it with me).
I thought, perhaps, the part where Vlad stops narrating is told from the point of view of Blackwand.
DrPepperFan: Very nice, I missed those. Should we take it they were memories that filtered back after the memorectomy? (Mnemectomy?)
Another one might be “I’ve landed on solid rock after a long fall” (Hawk, Chapter 16, 300) and Vlad remembering jumping off a cliff as a kid to get away from some Orcas (Tsalmoth, Chapter 13, 220). Though you might think “solid rock after a long fall” would cause more injury than he tells us.
Speaking of Vlad’s fall in Hawk, why didn’t he levitate or twist the air around like molasses or something then? Were those among the things he forgot? Was he worried that they would have left time for the Jhereg to attack him? (Maybe he could have turned one of them on shortly before hitting the water.) Or did using a spell like that just go without saying?
Just finished and wanted to leave my compliments. Excellent work.
I enjoyed this a lot. Many different layers and emotions here.
Also, I want some good sausage and crumbly cheese.
Is dark water a thing in Hungarian myth? I watched Cracow Monsters earlier in the year and it featured there involving a nasty demon with Polish background.
So far as I know, Dark Water came out of the game, invented by either the DM or the guy playing Morrolan. Either of them could have had another source that I’m unaware of.
Fun book! Like others, I was disappointed that it didn’t continue the story after Hawk, but enjoyed seeing Vlad and Cawti getting along (an understated description).
DrPepperFan: Nice, I’d missed those. I wonder whether Steven used his “external memory” for them.
This might be another:
“I’ve landed on solid rock after a long fall” (Hawk, Chapter 16, 300).
“Once when I was a kid, a bunch of Orcas were chasing me up by the East Bank Cliffs, and I ended up jumping off and falling, I don’t know, not all the way down, of course, but far enough so they didn’t want to follow me.” (Tsalmoth, Chapter 13, 220).
That makes me wonder why Vlad, when he jumps in Hawk, didn’t levitate or turn the air to molasses or something. Would it have kept him in the air so long the bad persons might taken a shot at him? (He could have waited till he was fairly close to the water.) Did it go without saying? Or did he forget he could do those things as a result of his mnemectomy? (The word seems to exist.)
Now looking forward to Lyorn!
Cool. That was a really interesting panel at Minicon, by the way.
@Chris That is a Really cool Issola catch.
——
I would guess that as Vlad regains his memory he is once again becoming summonable and so is a demon from that point of view.
Of course, there is also The Demon and I’ve got to think that’s a set of kittens on the mantlepiece that will be playing even more in all this lovely yarn.
Just finished it today. I don’t have much to say other than how much fun I had reading it. I started your books way back in 2007 when I saw “To Reign in Hell” in a Barnes and Noble, and I’ve been hooked ever since. Tsalmoth was a delight. Fast, kept me guessing, and I couldn’t put it down. I know I’m just an internet denizen, but reading this book was a highlight of my week. Thanks!
IIRC Godslayer’s Serioli name translated to “remover of aspects of divinity.” What if that actually means something like severing a present manifestation of a god or demon from their others? I know Verra was not happy to have Vlad bring GS into her presence, but might that be because she was in the Halls (her “home” existence) at the time?
@DONALD DIPAULA:
Maybe it just downgrades a god to a demon?
Ever since the reveal that Vlad was a Demon (and the subsequent realization that Vlad was asking Sethra if there was anything she could do about it), My mind kept going back to a conversation I clearly remembered where Vlad says “I’ve never met a Demon” and Sethra corrects him. This is where we learn the Necromancer is a Demon. I wondered how that would be resolved, as I thought it was a conversation with everyone. Turns out, it was Issola and only Sethra and Lady Teldra are present. So Sethra can keep the secret without trouble, and I’m not sure but it seems unlikely Lady Teldra would have learned of Vlad’s Demonic nature. Thus, even if Sethra is the only one that still knows, this scene can work.
The biggest new mystery in this book to me is certainly who knows Vlad is a Demon, and when did they learn? And how many memories got messed up along the way. After thinking it through longer, I can’t see everyone keeping it secret from Vlad. Too many chances to slip up, not to mention too many times where someone must have wondered “Can Vlad being a demon help us out in this crazy situation?” But could Sethra have controlled the information with how many people learned in Tsalmoth? Or, did removing Vlad’s memory of his name remove it from everyone’s memory?
And if Cawti had all the same memories removed as Vlad… well that’s a lot of joy and happiness that both of them lost… and that’s no help for a marriage either.
I like that the book’s structure fits the Tsamolth character so well.
Does knowing someone’s True Name have meaning for non-demons?
@howardbrazee There is no evidence it does.
The Left Hand sorceresses certainly do not like giving out their names…
To be fair Kragar, I believe we only have an extremely limited example demonstrating your assertion. I’m pretty sure that I can only remember one instance of a Left Hand sorceress talking to Vlad about him using her name in an incantation, or something, and that felt half-bantering to me. That said, I have not found that particular passage, so as always, I’m happy to be proved wrong!
Fun book! Like others, I was disappointed that it didn’t continue the story after Hawk, but enjoyed seeing Vlad and Cawti getting along (an understated description).
DrPepperFan: Nice, I’d missed those. This might be another.
“I’ve landed on solid rock after a long fall” (Hawk Chapter 16, 300).
“Once when I was a kid, a bunch of Orcas were chasing me up by the East Bank Cliffs, and I ended up jumping off and falling, I don’t know, not all the way down, of course, but far enough so they didn’t want to follow me.” (Tsalmoth, Chapter 13, 220).
That makes me wonder why Vlad, when he jumps in Hawk, didn’t levitate or turn the air to molasses or something. Would it have kept him in the air so long the bad persons might taken a shot at him? (He could have waited till he was fairly close to the water.) Did it go without saying? Or did he forget he could do those things as a result of his mnemectomy? (The word seems to exist.)
Now I’m looking forward to Lyorn!
I never knew it was so easy to turn oneself invisible using Orb sorcery. Perhaps it is also very easy to detect someone else who is doing so…
@kragar in Jhegaala Vlad mentions an assassin using invisibility and how to detect it (IE, by throwing glitter in their direction).
@Kragar Also in /Hawk/ chapter 8 when Daymar makes Vlad invisible there’s a paragraph about it; “if you happen to walk by someone with a reasonable amount of skill in sorcery, you’re going to stick out like a kethna at court.”
I would venture to guess that spells or minor enchantments to alert one of invisibility or other such spells nearby might be moderately common, such as Tazendra’s amulet referenced at the beginning of /The Phoenix Guards/; not to mention the various protection/detection spells Vlad (and presumably any Jhereg boss) had about their office.
I recall the passage in Jhegaala. I think there was some discussion about invisibility being more useful in the East, as there were far fewer sorcerors.
@Zoe- THE JENOINE ARE FALLEN ANGELS-
I tend to think the gods are fallen angels. Keeping a stunted human civilization as guard dogs, reigning in hell if you will. ‘The Jenoine think we are cute’. Yaweh’s cuties. The Jenoine are the loyal angels.
Morrolan feels guilt over the souls his blade has consumed?
Mind. Blown.
The look on his face if he knew Vlad knew he felt that way?
Priceless.
Aren’t demons immortal, like gods? If so, this sets up an interesting future for Vlad.
Q: What’s the difference between a demon and a god?
A: Vlad isn’t a god yet.
Vlad’s voice in my head is, for the moment, Ray Liotta’s narration from “Goodfellas”.
I really like the slow progression of Vlad and Cawti’s relationship in the background. The hesitation about spending time with each other, and the cautious checking about where to spend the night, slowly melting into a partnership where they’re together by default and are making plans for the rest of their lives. More tragically, the Hawk-like blind spots that they never discuss, about why Cawti stopped killing people, and what she’ll do with her time instead of killing people. And the line that could be the epigraph of their relationship: “Just because you’ve been hurt, doesn’t mean anyone did anything wrong.”
There’s also a great bookend between the beginning where Vlad muses about people doing what they need to and not having time for what they want, and the end where Vlad rejects the money he’s been pursuing because it would be too much like truly becoming a demon. And all throughout the book, we see Vlad and Cawti pursuing the 800 gold like a Tsalmoth from all angles, while at the same time keeping their own hours and doing what they want when they want. (And of course, the sharp edge to all of this as a critique of the socio-political-economic system.)
From Vlad-the-narrator’s remarks to Sethra-the-listener, this sounds like maybe the second recording in Vlad’s timeline. Other signs of earliness are him being less sophisticated in his viewpoint and vocabulary, no bitter remarks about the protestors in South Adrilankha, the chapter introductions are discrete entities instead of being interwoven into the story, and Vlad only starts holding back information from the listener (for more than half a page, anyway) near the end, rather than constantly throughout the entire story. So I’m curious what the first recording in Vlad’s timeline was… One hint might be that in Yendi, we see “shareba”, here we see “Shereba”, and I think everywhere else it’s “shereba”, which might be intentional “early installment weirdness” added by SKZB. Also, in Dragon, Vlad jokes a lot by pretending to not understand big words, so maybe in Tsalmoth, assuming that it was narrated earlier even though it happened later, he’s deliberately playing it straight to the recorder, while in later narrations he opens up a bit and admits to being smarter than he normaly lets on. By that view, Cawti not only helped him become more educated and literate, but also gave him “permission” to display his existing knowledge, by being an example of an Easterner and a Jhereg who didn’t play dumb.
I’m trying to make the numbers work for the perfume calculation in Tsalmoth 1. 5 pounds of hishi makes 1 pint of liquid, which can be sold for 1000 gold to someone who’ll do the distribution themself. Alternatively, you can do the distribution yourself, which should in theory result in more money for you, even after expenses. Vlad says 40 gold per liquid ounce. So does that mean that there’s more than 1000/40=25 ounces in a pint? In America, it’s 16. In Jhegaala 13 we learn that there’s 17 Imperial ounces in an Imperial pound. Does this imply 34 Dragaeran fluid ounces to a Dragaeran pint? 34*40-1000=360 gold does seem like a reasonable amount of profit for distribution.
Spend too much time around a stolen boat, become a demon? I kinda wonder if the place was founded by the Demon or Kefaan or both, and they eventually got bored with it and sold it off. The name sounds like the sort of joke that the Demon would make, where no one gets it except the people he intends.
It’s nice to see Sticks again. My favorite part of “Vallista” was his memorial. And together with the flashback to the Tribe of the Jhereg, I felt like I gained some understanding of the Jhereg.
In Phoenix 17, Verra told Vlad “You don’t even know who you are yet”, but until now I thought she was talking about either normal personal development, or past lives. Or maybe it was all three; it’d be like Verra to simultaneously say three different things to someone who only hears one of them.
In Tsalmoth 4, we get some Morrolan POV, but there’s not much emotion or explicit thinking. Maybe he’s just like that? But in Tsalmoth 7, Vlad notes of Loiosh that “sometimes he knows what I’m thinking, even when I don’t direct the thought at him”, and we know that Vlad can keep secrets from Loiosh. I think in a previous book, Morrolan indicates that Blackwand is his familiar? So maybe what Vlad was picking up from Morrolan was similar to what Teldra and/or Loiosh might pick up from Vlad.
Regarding the sequence in Issola 9 with the three paths, I’d picked up that there were three threads (they even have different writing styles), but I thought it was just general weirdness involving dimensional travel. I hadn’t thought of it as Vlad being in multiple places at the same time. (Plus, being in multiple places at the same time would partly explain *how* Verra says different things to different people.)
Regarding brigadiers, I’d previously (from “Tiassa”) assumed that “brigadier” was a higher rank than “captain”, at least in the Imperial guards. But maybe it’s a lower rank? That would fit the description in Orca 7 of the Special Tasks Group being “one of those branches of the service where traditional ranks were meaningless”, and where the members had lower ranks than their importance would suggest.
When Vlad uses Spellbreaker to stop an attack from a sorceress, I had an idea. I’d been picturing sorcerous attacks as like blaster bolts in Star Wars, but invisible or made of diffent colors of light. Technically dodgeable, and it might sometimes be possible to swing a small chain and hit one, but Vlad seemed to have an unrealistic amount of success under this model, and partial effects seemed too common. But if the way it worked were like a laser with a time-delay, the problem is solved! The caster sends out a continuous beam (instantaneous or at light-speed) to establish a connection, then various sorcerous things are done over the connection, and if the target hasn’t reacted in time, the spell takes effect. So dodging is a thing, and intersecting the beam with a chain is easy, but the danger is fast spells and spells that have incremental effects over the casting time (rather than spells that have a single effect at the end). Which would imply that someone who knew about Vlad and Spellbreaker could craft a spell that minimizes Spellbreaker’s usefulness. If Vlad still had Spellbreaker, anyway; Godslayer may work differently.
In Tsalmoth 17, Teldra and Noish-pa meet at Vlad’s wedding, and dance together. But in Phoenix 13, it seems as though they’re meeting for the first time, although it doesn’t actually say so, or explicitly contradict them having met before. But I can’t come up with a good explanation for why they say what they say in Phoenix 13. Does anyone have any ideas?
In Dzur 5, Vlad touches an altar of the Demon Goddess with his left hand and Lady Teldra with his right hand and gets some memory back. Later in Dzur 9, he says that it’s memories from the first visit to the Paths of the Dead in Taltos, and also memories from his later visit to Verra’s hall in Phoenix. So together with the memory wipe in Tsalmoth 17, that makes at least 3 times that Verra and Devera have messed with his mind. Which all seem to have good excuses, but I can’t help wondering whether they’ll eventually result in a Godslayer to Verra’s back. :-/
(It occurs to me that, after “Issola”, Vlad can legitimately tell someone whom he’s about to stab with Lady Teldra, “say hello to my little friend”.)
I assume that the Ritt from “Tsalmoth” is not the same as the Ritt from “The Viscount of Adrilankha”, but it would be interesting if they were!
A couple of clauses from Brokedown Palace 16.5i, out of order: “pretty Margit wed the demon”, “perhaps your daughter’s daughter will fare better”. Or perhaps not! (Not that they probably mean precisely the same thing by “demon”, but it’s amusing anyway. Also, that was published in 1986, 37 years ago, so this would be one heck of a call-back.)
Regarding the portrait in Castle Black in Tsalmoth 13, there is something half fishy here (if the Tiassa Heir will pardon the expression). In “The Baron of Magister Valley”, we meet Sajen, a Chreotha painter who has a side business doing forgery. We are also told of a certain member of Pamlar University who lost his position due in no small part to plagiarism. And in a letter appended to the end of the book, from the Tiassa Heir, Princess Genphala, dating from a time in Empress Norathar’s reign, we learn that these two people are one and the same. So far so good; a tidy package wrapped up neatly. But now in “Tsalmoth” we learn that a painter who is a forger has done a portrait of a female Tiassa, probably the Heir, during Empress Zerika’s reign or earlier! The plot thickens. It would be too much to suppose that there would be more than one such painter in the Empire, thus we can assume that they are the same person. If Morrolan’s painting is of a Tiassa Heir, is it of a previous Heir, or of Princess Genphala? If the painting is of a previous Tiassa Heir, then we are left to wonder about precisely how the Tiassa succession works, both in general and specifically during the most recent transition: did Genphala gain her position through uncovering something inappropriate about the former Heir? Whereas if the painting is of Princess Genphala, that would force us to conclude that her letter concealed her previous interactions with the painter-slash-forger-turned-historian; a perfectly understandable concealment, to be sure, but one that compels us to wonder: what else is she hiding?
Moon Moth: Wow. This is delightful. Thanks. The only one going to answer is the last: Yes, that is a portrait of Princess Genphala, and your conclusion is correct.
Me: “Who are you?”
Moon Moth “No one of consequence.”
Me: “I must know!”
Moon Moth: “Get used to disappointment.”
Me: [Shrugging] “Okay.”
Okay, how about this? The chapter that seems to abandon Vlad’s voice, and starts I/he/I
He?
I.
Told from the aspect of Vlad that is a demon?
The Necromancer opined that Vlad may have difficulty incorporating both at this stage.
@MoonMoth Regarding when the book was narrated, we can be clear that Taltos is the first narration. He even says in Dragon that he’d just finished recording it. Dragon is also before Tsalmoth, because he finishes narrating it while he and Cawti are still engaged (the day after Aliera and Sethra the Younger smash up his apartment), and Tsalmoth (bar the epilogue) ends with their wedding.
I expect that Tag (from Tiassa) is also earlier than Tsalmoth, for the same reason. Yendi is an open question, but it’s definitely around the same time. The last thing that happens in Yendi is Vlad introducing Cawti to Noish-pa, but that doesn’t mean that he finished narrating it right away.
As far as Vlad’s vocabulary being much smaller, given his narration in Taltos, he already had a better vocabulary than he shows in Tsalmoth. The simplest in-world explanation is that he’s messing with the listener or Sethra, because he finds it amusing.
@skzb: No, thank you! I regret that it took me 25 years to tell you how much I enjoy your writing.
@Kragar: Sorry, I’ve been having problems with posting comments, and apparently even when I’m successful, it takes a while to clear moderation, or whatever. So I try, wait a day, and try again.
My guess about that chunk of chapter 4 is that some part of Vlad (his “consciousness”, apparently) got removed and stuck inside Blackwand. And I hadn’t been thinking of it this way, but perhaps, to be able to move it around and get it back into Vlad’s body, the Necromancer revealed/created Vlad’s “true name”, thus making him a demon. Which would imply that his out-of-body experience here was similar to what happens when he’s summoned, and that he’s eavesdropping on Blackwand simply because he’s inside of Blackwand.
On the other hand, the time where he’s summoned at the start of chapter 13, he doesn’t remember anything. I’m guessing that the summoning started when his “eyes rolled back”, and that his not remembering all of the previous conversation is just the normal human thing.
@Dennis: You’re probably right. I’d done a re-read just before “Tsalmoth”, with Paarfi at the end, and had only started to pay attention to order of narration partway through. So unfortunately my memories of the earlier Vlad novels aren’t as fresh as my memory of the last note in “Baron of Magister Valley”. And there are too many layers of narration here for my head not to hurt… I just now took a look at the interludes in Dragon and came up with this:
Dragon 1 lets us know that the events of the main part of Dragon start the day after he finished the narration of the Paths of the Dead part of Taltos, which I think are chronologically the latest parts of Taltos? Dragon 6.5i is narrated the day that Sethra the Younger returns from a “few weeks” of exile, when she meets with Vlad to propose the trade. Vlad says “Here I am telling a story of what happened years ago”, implying that he was in the middle of narrating the main part of Dragon when Sethra the Younger contacted him. Dragon 10.5i says Cawti “has agreed”, not “had agreed”, so that would imply narration before the wedding in Tsalmoth 17. It starts with Vlad talking to Cawti in bed “last night”, and says “today” is the day Vlad and Cawti met with Aliera to discuss Sethra the Younger’s proposal, so call that day 1. Dragon 14.5i says that on day 2 Vlad sent the message to Sethra the Younger, on day 3 Vlad “finished telling my story, as far as I felt like going” (which presumably means the narration of Dragon), and the apartment-wrecking happens, and day 4 is “today”. In the epilogue, Morrolan says “I’ve suspected for years now that there were things you never told me about the Wall of Baritt’s Tomb.”, confirming that it was “years ago”.
There’s no other indications about when the epilogue is narrated, and it could easily have been done at the same time as the previous interlude, since it’s all about stuff that happened on day 3.
So it seems like the order of narration in Dragon is roughly: Vlad starts a multi-day process of narrating the main part, on one of the days interlude 6.5i happens and he narrates it, some days later he narrates interlude 10.5i, two days later Vlad finishes narrating the main part, the next day he narrates interlude 14.5i and probably the epilogue. Whew. I am not cut out to be a historian.
But at least now I finally think I get what Vlad meant by, “First, I have to ask you to excuse me for starting in the middle, but that’s more or less where it starts.”
@skzb: No, thank you! I regret that it took me 25 years to tell you how much I enjoy your writing.
@Kragar: Sorry, I’ve been having problems with posting comments, and apparently even when I’m successful, it takes a while to clear moderation, or whatever. So I try, wait a day, and try again.
My guess about that chunk of chapter 4 is that some part of Vlad (his “consciousness”, apparently) got removed and stuck inside Blackwand. And I hadn’t been thinking of it this way, but perhaps, to be able to move it around and get it back into Vlad’s body, the Necromancer revealed/created Vlad’s “true name”, thus making him a demon. Which would imply that his out-of-body experience here was similar to what happens when he’s summoned, and that he’s eavesdropping on Blackwand simply because he’s inside of Blackwand.
On the other hand, the time where he’s summoned at the start of chapter 13, he doesn’t remember anything. I’m guessing that the summoning started when his “eyes rolled back”, and that his not remembering all of the previous conversation is just the normal human thing.
@Dennis: You’re probably right. I’d done a re-read just before “Tsalmoth”, with Paarfi at the end, and had only started to pay attention to order of narration partway through. So unfortunately my memories of the earlier Vlad novels aren’t as fresh as my memory of the last note in “Baron of Magister Valley”. And there are too many layers of narration here for my head not to hurt… I just now took a look at the interludes in Dragon and came up with this:
Dragon 1 lets us know that the events of the main part of Dragon start the day after he finished the narration of the Paths of the Dead part of Taltos, which I think are chronologically the latest parts of Taltos? Dragon 6.5i is narrated the day that Sethra the Younger returns from a “few weeks” of exile, when she meets with Vlad to propose the trade. Vlad says “Here I am telling a story of what happened years ago”, implying that he was in the middle of narrating the main part of Dragon when Sethra the Younger contacted him. Dragon 10.5i says Cawti “has agreed”, not “had agreed”, so that would imply narration before the wedding in Tsalmoth 17. It starts with Vlad talking to Cawti in bed “last night”, and says “today” is the day Vlad and Cawti met with Aliera to discuss Sethra the Younger’s proposal, so call that day 1. Dragon 14.5i says that on day 2 Vlad sent the message to Sethra the Younger, on day 3 Vlad “finished telling my story, as far as I felt like going” (which presumably means the narration of Dragon), and the apartment-wrecking happens, and day 4 is “today”. In the epilogue, Morrolan says “I’ve suspected for years now that there were things you never told me about the Wall of Baritt’s Tomb.”, confirming that it was “years ago”.
There’s no other indications about when the epilogue is narrated, and it could easily have been done at the same time as the previous interlude, since it’s all about stuff that happened on day 3.
So it seems like the order of narration in Dragon is roughly: Vlad starts a multi-day process of narrating the main part, on one of the days interlude 6.5i happens and he narrates it, some days later he narrates interlude 10.5i, two days later Vlad finishes narrating the main part, the next day he narrates interlude 14.5i and probably the epilogue. Whew. I am not cut out to be a historian.
But at least now I finally think I get what Vlad meant by, “First, I have to ask you to excuse me for starting in the middle, but that’s more or less where it starts.”
The subtle details scattered throughout. Aliera’s daughter being the flower girl and Vlad not making the connection was such a great addition to that part. Really tied in that the whole family was there! The demonization was a nice touch but raises so many questions. Is anyone able to go through that process or was it circumstance? If the first step of being a god is to be in more than one place is that achieved? Since gods are just overpowered demons from my understanding that are too powerful to be controlled can any of them become members of the gods in the halls of judgment? There’s just so much going on all at once! And why does the food always sound so damn good?
I don’t believe demons can live in the Halls.
Thanks much, DrPepperFan! I had caught some of those, but missed several! Thanks also to Jerry Friedman for noticing a thing I’d missed.
Was anyone else reminded of the first Parker novel, _The Hunter_ by “Richard Stark” (Donald E. Westlake)? It has a similar structure, of a criminal pursuing money which he believes that he is owed, with extreme tenacity.
Re: Lady Teldra having already met Noish-pa prior to _Phoenix_. She knows that Noish-pa is old as Easterners go, and that they often have cognitive decline in their aging years. So she is (as always) perfectly polite, neither assuming that he remembers her, nor that he has forgotten her.
The Ritt from the Paarfi books “joined the Imperial Guard, where, in the year eighty-five, he received a promotion to ensign, which post he continues to occupy at this writing”, so doesn’t seem like he could be working for Vlad.
Oh, and the Dragaera Timeline has now been updated.
Will there be an audiobook of Tsalmoth?? Love this series, can’t read it on paper due to crap eyes.
@Moon Moth, regarding Lady Teldra meeting Noish-pa for what appears to be the first time in Phoenix, I had the same thought when reading Tsalmoth. This could be explained as the meeting in Phoenix was told from Vlad’s post memory redaction perspective. If the memory of them meeting in Tsalmoth was included in the things that Vlad lost, from his point of view it was the first meeting, and thus the way he described it. I can certainly envision those two encountering each other many times with Teldra’s grace charming the pants off of Noish-pa each and every time. :)
Turns out Audible has no such plans. I’m looking into the possibility of producing one myself. I can’t promise it will happen, but I’m looking at it.
@skzb Damn! Well, thank you for the answer and above all for all the books. I would happily donate to a Kickstarter or similar if you decide to go that route, and I’m sure I’m not alone.
re: an audiobook version, oh no! I’ve never been into audiobooks myself, but that’s a shame if this doesn’t get one. If I were a bit more confident in my speaking ability I’d be tempted to volunteer to do the reading myself, but I’m not sure I could pull off a whole book without a few errors and stumbles. (Maybe I really do need to take up my mom’s offer of voice lessons/coaching….)
So, upon reread I noticed that Vlad’s depiction of Fentor got a lot more respectful when Sethra was listening in.
@Alexx
“The Ritt from the Paarfi books “joined the Imperial Guard, where, in the year eighty-five, he received a promotion to ensign, which post he continues to occupy at this writing”, so doesn’t seem like he could be working for Vlad.”
Perhaps Ritt was working for Vlad as a part of an undercover investigation into Jhereg activities? Seems like the kind of favor Vlad wouldn’t mind having Morrolan (on behalf of Khaavren and the Empress) owe him.
Majikjon
Possible, but I see no reason to suppose so. As it is, names in fantasy novels are unique to a ridiculous degree when compared against literally every human culture that I’m familiar with.
Also, was Ritt even his real name? Was Belly’s?
As for Fentor, Vlad says he is a Dragon in Tsalmoth. But don’t we learn that Fentor is actually a Tsalmoth in Lord of Castle Black? I am confused. Or is Vlad?
Looked this up: Fentor e’Mondaar is introduced in LoCB as a dragonlord.
Fentor is first introduced in Jhereg by Vlad as a Tsalmoth.
Later on Vlad backpedals on this. Possibly his narration of the events of Jhereg has been confused by a recent memory wipe of some kind, leaving him a little hazy about certain particulars? Maybe also involving facts related to him by Aliera concerning her father and the second Dragon-Jhereg war?
Just saying that maybe Vlad’s memory is more understandably *especially* unreliable concerning things he tells us in Jhereg owing to what we now know happened immediately beforehand.
It’s not the first time Vlad has mixed up a Dragaeran’s correct house. Daro’s red dress threw Vlad for a loop if I recall correctly. Pretty understandable that a Easterner Jhereg has trouble keeping track of which high noble is what.
@Alexx Kay One exception here is Ibronka, where we know of three so far. Piro’s lover, Noish-Pa’s wife, and some Eastener woman Vlad dated for a while.
@Captain Button
There’s about a half dozen duplicates sprinkled here and there. Tem. Lan. Laszlo. Ori. Jaf. In addition to the three Ibronkas you mentioned, there have also been three separate men named Jani.
Still, out of a population of around 1200 names, that’s really not much overlap at all. To the left, the Dragaerans don’t have a tradition of using patronymics, so it may just be the custom to ensure their children have very distinctive names on that account.
@skzb Thank you for another wonderful story in the series. Some unsolicited feedback: there’s an excessive amount of errors that a decent proofreading could have fixed, one example, “carthis” on the last page. Also, plot-wise, there were numerous spots throughout the book where Vlad makes reference to things that happened or were said mere pages earlier but were not there…almost like whole paragraphs were removed without care for loss of context for the reader.
@skzb Further to my previous unsolicited feedback, I also wanted to comment that there was inconsistency with personalities. Fentor’s was more aggressive/short than in previous books. Morrolan’s concern over whether Vlad fought and killed Tarvissa is out-of-character for him. Vlad’s sudden shift in narrative during his confrontation with Tarvissa is very unlike him. In fact, Vlad seemed to be going through the whole book as if somewhat in a stupor. He was assassinated but seemed to act like it was nothing? I loved the voice of younger Vlad…but he was a lot more cutthroat than this.
“Carthis” is used quite intentionally, as you would likely understand had you read carefully.
I think it used to drive Gene Wolf crazy, I guess as it would for any author, when editors or printers would change his spellings or his words.
I carefully put “STET” around each use of “cathis” and “carthis” &c, so I didn’t have any problem.
Hmm. Looks like I shouldn’t have read the comments on this! :) Too spoilery! :) (Especially since I haven’t yet gained the money to buy many of the preceding books in this long and intriguingly intricate series! Plus, some of the earlier ones after the first three aren’t available as ebooks; at least not in the UK: something I think I have already moaned about… :) )
Jhereg was published in 1983, forty impossibly short years ago and as it happens, the year that I graduated from High School. Mr Brust, thank you again for very many years of pleasurable reading. I find that at this time in my life, there are times when I speculate about the prospects of living long enough to experience certain anticipated events. Mr Brust, too, is presumably not immortal. I can say only that among those things that it occurs to me to hope I shall endure to experience, seeing this saga to the final volume is most definitely often thought of. In a related vein, I ask: Mr Brust, how do you find your health?
I think it was back in Yendi, Vlad mentions asking Morrolan to stand for him at the wedding because he would be familiar with Eastern customs. And upon re-reads that just never sat right with me.
Anyways, the acknowledgement that it was Kragar up there with Vlad, was just one of many things that had my eyes watering the pages at the end of this book.
During our brief time in the perspective of Morrolan, in response to Cawti’s distress about Vlad, he wonders about what it would feel like to care about someone that much. Does present day Morrolan, post Issola, understand now?
I’m rereading Tsalmoth to finish off my second Vlad Taltos reread of the year and I just wanted to say thank you. This year has been a lot and these books make it all more bearable
Audrey: Thank you! That is so nice to hear.
There has been a lot of conversation as to Vlad status as a Demon. I would posit the following additional conjecture:
Vlad was a Demon during the events in Tsalmoth and supposedly stopped being a demon once his memory got wiped. So, is Vlad a Demon now that his memory has returned?
Ummmmmmmm….
A Demon, as it is to be understood, is a being able to manifest in at least two places at once and subject to the forcible control of another being. With Vlad’s memory back, we might assume he is at least able to manifest in more than one place at the same time once again.
But can Vlad be forcibly controlled? Well:
Vlad is not really in an accommodating mood right now.
Vlad now has a great weapon.
A great weapon popularly named Godslayer.
Valabars has announced it’s now closed on Mondays.
Vlad is REALLY NOT in an accommodating mood right now.
The Halls of Judgement may be hosting some emergency Zoom meetings.
In other news: SKZB You’re work has meant a lot to me. I’ve learned a great deal from the questions you’ve posed and the rabbit holes of thought you’ve sent me down. Thank you.
Blue Moon: Thanks for the kind words; it’s good of you to say.
4th reading here. I think it has finally sunk in. Blackwand disrupted the spell and sent Vlad’s consciousness, through Blackwand, into Morrolan’s mind.
The Necromancer had to demonize Vlad to give his consciousness a body again.
Layers within layers. Well done.
I’m intrigued by this concept, and I’m open to the idea that Vlad’s demonic nature may still play a significant role in his eventual interactions with his demon goddess, adding depth to the storyline.
Regarding “The Dancing Biscuit,” while it’s not clear where this specific name comes from, it could have a unique or whimsical origin tied to the narrative or character development within the story, similar to how “The Stolen Boat” might have its own contextual significance.
@skb, I wasn’t sure where to put this as a first time poster, but I was wondering if there were any plans for a Tsalmoth audiobook to be released. I’ve always enjoyed Bernard Setaro Clark’s performances.
I hope so. Audible isn’t doing it, so I’m looking into producing it myself, with Mr. Clark doing the reading. No promises, but I think it might happen.
@skzb I don’t know about others, but I would be happy to participate in funding the audiobook if you decide to crowdfund for it. The audiobooks for the Vlad Taltos books narrated by Mr. Clark are so wonderful
Dark water – water that has never seen light – is referenced in one of the Wizard of Oz books. I don’t know if it’s original to Baum.
Yeah skzb has not invented every fantasy trope like magic swords, sorcery, withcraft, powerful artifacts, past lives, dark water, etc.
It’s how he uses them so skillfully that keeps me coming back for more.
After reread of Valista I understand differently the story
At the beginning Vlad concentrated and get in “meditation” mode and meet Tethia but I think he used his Demon powers and moved to a different world (some were between the path of dead and the manor as Tethia stuck there )
During the next meeting Tethia tells Vlad that the room powers are amplified on him because he is not human , Vlad thinks that she means that he is an easterner but actually she meant that he is a Demon
Also she spokes about complication of here been in the room with Vlad but from her explanation about Demon powers
I assume that Vlad Demon powers allow him to control his location in this different world ( Tethia location ) without any trouble
So actually Vlad is in control of his Demon powers and using it transparently without knowing it
Nice!
And thank you skzb for the Vlad Demon twist
Now I have another reason to reread the books and look for the hidden gems of Vlad abilities
In Hawk after Vlad fall in the trap of necromantic gate
“What happened?”
“What did it look like to you?”
“Like you moved faster than it is possible for anyone to move. Like the sword was drawing your arm. How did it seem to you, Boss?”
“Like-I don’t know. Like I was someone else. Like I went somewhere else.”
“You did, Boss. For a minute there, I couldn’t find you. I didn’t much care for it. Can you not do that anymore?”
“I can’t promise that, Loiosh. I was me and talking to me, and I was her.”
“Her? Who her?”
“Lady Teldra. The one who used to be a person. The one who was killed.”
The question is it was really L.T or it was Vlad Demon power or both ? If it both then probably L.T is amplifying his Demon capabilities? Or because of the bond that they have she have his Demon capabilities?
Oh yeah baby. That’s a good one.
The bond between Lady Teldra and Vlad should be typical for all Great Weapons and their wielders. And we can easily assume it has nothing to do with demons because Morrolan, Telnan, and Zerika are clearly not of such kind; it could be _something_ in Aliera because of her lineage and her re-born in the Halls of Judgement, and there is for sure _something_ in Sethra that could be attributed to demons, too, because of her complex nature, oh yes.
But the bond itself is not based on demonic nature/forces/abilities.
Some of the missed Great Weapons could reside – currently = in some other worlds, even maybe wielded by demons, because why not? Vlad is the wielder and he can be summoned… technically.
I don’t think that Morrolan , Aliera or Telnan are Demons
In one of the books ( I think Isola) Sethra told Vlad that he familiar with a Demon and say it’s Nacromancer but none of the above Srthra is Sethra so you never know
How Zerika related to the great weapons ? She have the Orb but this is not a great weapon .
Moreover Vlad is the only one ( maybe except Sethra) that was familiar with the real person of the great weapon soul so the bond is on a different level
We saw few times that Vlad done crazy physical stuff with LT that no one else done ( the only one that was physically affected by his great weapon is Marrolan – twice: Isola during the fight with the Genoines when he was dead and I think in Lord of the castle black when he was fighting in the eastern village with the locals and the god )
I don’t claim that great weapons holders are Demons I just say that the bond between Vlad and LT is so strong that she uses his own Demons powers to save them both ….
I just finished to reread the Dragon
I’m a bit confused about the time line of the story
Is it before the Tsalmoth or after ?
A the beginning of the plot Vlad didn’t mention Cawti an decided to go to war without consulting with her but at the end of the book Cawti is part of the story
Thera are two interesting parts of the book :
1. During Vlad company first assault on the hill , Vlad telling that he don’t know how he survived because there where at least two direct shots at him that should kill him but the misses him
2. The walk to the river after his hit at the back with magic, he was walking through dreams ( as he explains to Necromancer) and he had a conversation with her that lilosh was not aware of
Its looks that Vlad used his Demon powers in those episodes .
@skzb am I’m right about the time line and Dragon plot happens after Tsalmoth ?
Dragon surely goes before Tsalmoth. Dragon ‘main line’ is directly after Taltos, then it’s Yendi when Vlad meets Cawti, and then it’s Dragon ‘interludes’ when in the end Aliera receives Pathfinder. In Tsalmoth she wields it from the very beginning.
Even more, Tiassa part 1 (Tag) goes before Tsalmoth and maybe before Dragon ‘interluldes’, too, cause Vlad meets Cawti “just recently”.
As for Aliera nature and abilities – well… her mother being the DEMON Goddess. and she herself being reborn from Loraak’s wand in Halls of Judgement… I’d ask the Necromancer first whether all of that makes Aliera ‘demon’ enough. Devera is a goddess-in-making, and again, this is because she’s conceived and born somewhere in the Halls, and we happen to know the only key difference between god and demon.